I wish you all a very happy new year. I hope that you had a restful vacation and that you were not stressed out rewriting your college essay for the University of Chicago. With that in mind I wanted to pick an article that was neither too taxing nor one that was too disconnected from your own reality. Here's your article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/education/edlife/03careerism-t.html?em
Also in the New York Times I found this interesting article on what various New Yorkers hoped for the coming decade for New York. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/nyregion/03resolve.html?pagewanted=1&ref=todayspaper) This is what Jennifer Raab, president of Hunter College had to say:
"We’re at a critical moment where the city has to really commit to becoming a leader in higher public education. It’s more important than ever now given the fact that people need a college degree to move into a middle-class lifestyle.
It’s about $38,000 for private institutions in New York — and that’s just tuition. At Hunter, it’s only $4,600 a year. So if you’re a sanitation worker and a nurse, say, with two kids, how do you pay $38,000 times two over four years?
When education begins to price itself out the range of the average New Yorker, that’s a problem.
I am wondering what you are planning on doing next year. What is a college education worth? What is the return on the investment of your time and money? Is Raab right when she suggests that if the price of a college education far excedes what some can pay that the foundation or our society and our democracy is at risk? Do you have the impression that you can get a valuable education without having to pay $53,000/year? Is there a sufficient amount of financial aid? Is it more important that we produce business majors with marketable skills rather than philosophy majors? Is the idea of a liberal arts education outdated?
For the Martincan students: What do you think about paying $53,000/year? If you go to la fac next year it will surely cost less. There are advantages and disadvantages of paying less. A common expression in English is, "you get what you pay for," to a certain degree that does indeed apply to a college education. Will you get the education you deserve? Would you like to study a year in an American university?
These questions are just to guide you. Please do not feel obligated to answer them all.
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This post is a little off topic, but hopefully it will put things into perspective.
ReplyDeleteAs a senior, I've lately been exposed to the picking-a-major hysteria. I've been hearing things along the lines of "I love music, but there are no jobs" or "You're a history major! (with the belittling tone). It is a shame that bright creative minds are being restricted to the often clichéd mentality of going to college, landing a job, and making money. And sometimes this process even transforms into the unfortunate 2400-SAT kill-myself-academic rigor that puts growing teenagers into extremely stressful and pressuring lifestyles. Humanity teachers are constantly being asked "Why should I understand the dramatic revolutionary change in society that is inherent in The Great Gatsby?" or "How will knowing how to take the derivative help me in life?"
Most scientists agree that the mid-twenties are indeed the peak of a person's brain activity. Einstein was sixteen when he postulated and began to address the constant time-space mentality that was present in his day. Imagine him spending those years staying up until 4 am studying so he could get accepted into Harvard and thus robbing the world of his genius.
Unfortunately, this is how a kid my age would see the current America- there are scientists working in CERN and Fermilab uncovering ground-breaking subatomic particles and spending endless hours surrounded by advanced math. They make 50,000 a year, if lucky, and they're best chances are to get a teaching job. Then there's the callous get-out-of-my-way Wall Street Tycoons making several thousand dollars an hour for sitting on a chair and making phone calls or telling someone to tell someone to tell someone to work harder. And the particle scientist has to study for nearly a decade after college while the "business" major is on a fast-track to money. No wonder the humanity majors are quickly losing their ground while business is a rising major.
College is being treated as an investment, not as a place where one can finally become independent and get a perspective of what they really want to do.
Now to get back to the question.
Yes, college is really expensive and surprisingly enough, the burden's on the middle class. The rich can pay, and from what I'm seeing, there is financial aid, but most of it is for those who "qualify." For a lower middle or lower class student, an Ivy costs less than a state school. Interesting, isn't it? Regarding more average schools, 53K is ridiculous and for less prestigious schools, there often isn't enough aid. But with the must-go-to-college mentality, an undergraduate degree is soon to be the low end of the chain for my generation entering work. More people are going to college now than ever, so what can you really do?
--Manjinder pd 8
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ReplyDeleteAmie - pd. 8
ReplyDeleteCollege is the best educational experience the United States has to offer. Many international students desire to study in America during their college years and it has only gotten more competitive over the years. The aggressive buildup of students and parents focusing more on the years beyond college is understandable - it is getting increasingly difficult to find employment with a high school diploma and even an undergraduate degree. At the same time, I feel like colleges should also be helping the students by focusing their aims on what comes after college as well. There are schools that do this although I feel that getting rid of classes because of declining enrollment is not a great idea. Instead of taking classes off the roster, classes should be added. Education must be flexible to meet the needs of a constantly changing society but we cannot and should not rid ourselves of valuable classes such as Philosophy.
As for the price of an education, it is true that public universities are more affordable than private colleges. But the quality of the education a student is receiving must not be ignored. There is a gap between a Harvard degree and a degree from Hunter College; that is an irrefutable fact. The financial aid programs must also be taken into consideration. Prestigious schools, not only Ivy Leagues have an alumni pool that is usually a lot more successful than other schools. This usually means that the school has very good funding and can afford to give more financial aid to students that need it. Schools are also increasingly becoming need-blind when admitting students, showing their commitment to accepting students and offering them an education regardless of their financial situation. There are also many new policies that are being implemented to help students in need of financial aid to attend that more expensive and private school. For example, the Ivy League schools have a policy where a family that earns less than $60,000 a year are not required to make a family contribution. Then there are also policies stating families falling under certain brackets do not have to pay off loans and their financial aid package is entirely consists of grants and scholarships.
Basically, I believe that although the face price of an education received at a private institution may be more it is worth every penny. Not only the education but the experience is something you can never get back no matter how much money you have.
In the United States the most important thing in for any student is to graduate and proceed to college. If anyone were to ask any high school senior what their plans are after high school 9 out of 10 will say college. The problem now is that not many know what they are majoring in or what they will even do for a career after they have completed college. The reason for this is because college is the place where many students find themselves and learn what they will major in. However, with the economy the way it is, more and more students feel as though they need to enter college with a career and back up plan in mind.
ReplyDeleteAs show in the article positions in companies care less about what you majored in but how you implement what you have learned in the workplace. Many students feel that taking the major for the guaranteed career is a good idea but the problem is that not all students are cut out for those positions.
It is not completely on the fault of a student's/parent's naivety. With the economy the way it is; paying for a college education has become taxing to the common american citizen. As the price of credits increase each year, it makes more sense to invest in a scientist or accountant.
Overall, I feel that it is the education of what one wants to do that matters not the education one thinks they should have. Many end up following the road of what they think might lead them to success but it just ends up in either the non completion of college or and unhappy life. Education is important, but if you don't understand why you have that degree than what is the point in getting it? Learn what you love and success will come to you.
Pd. 8
ReplyDeleteA college education is worth a lot in this country. If you want any kind of job with a viable income, you absolutely must have a college education to get hired for such a job. The biggest return of doing all that college work is a better standing among employers and better preparation for the job world that lies ahead of you. I don't completely agree with Raabs statement but I do agree that its still more than what we should be playing for an education that is now practically mandatory for a good income. It is possible to get a good education without shelling out all that money because we have scholarships and financial aid to help us out. While it may not be enough for some, it jets the job done at least for most people. Also, if the cost at a private college is too much of an issue, you can always go to a city or state college where costs are much lower. How hard you work also determines how much of a burder the cost will be. The harder you work in high school or at your current college, the better you will be offered by any place you apply to. I don't agree that the idea of a liberal arts education is outdated. As the article said, many employers want to see writing skills and ability to reason in a person and aren't looking extensively at the major, which everyone seems to think they are. Although you won't necessarily get something job sepcific in such a major, the skills you learn from it are welcome and helpful anywhere you go.
To LIRE CE BLOG!!!:
ReplyDeleteJ'ai lit ton blog et je l'aime beaucoup :D..!!
I totes agree with you... there's way too much pressure for teenagers to get a high paying career, but to be fair, those people who are business tycoons are in a very unsafe business, one that depends on luck, whereas a scientist has more job stability even though they work harder. I don't think one job should be valued above the other, but that's just the values of our society; maybe we need to encourage scientific innovation instead of greed and sloth.
Oh, and I agree with the Einstein comment. One of my favorite quotes, by philosopher Denis Diderot, is "Only passions, great passions can elevate the soul to great things." Einstein had a passion for scientific theory, and that's why he became
the father of modern physics. If he was just studying for Harvard, and had no time for anything else, then all he'd ever accomplish was getting into Harvard, which is a great accomplishment but I think being the father of modern physics pretty much trumps that, plus how does him getting into Harvard change the world for the better?
CB;]
Now to Madame's questions:
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I don't know what Im going to do for college. I was going to study either french or biochemistry, but I've been doing research and biochem. looks like a really hard major...with a lot of memorizing, which I'm not very good at. I might major in liberal arts or the humanities because I've been told numerous times that I should just go into law since I write so much already. I don't think that a liberal arts education is outdated; although it's not very suitable for people who know exactly what they want to pursue. Most people are confused about which discipline they want to pursue and/or their future career requires an inter-disciplinary education, so a liberal arts education would be suitable for them.
EVERYONE is going to college these days, so a college education is worth a lot.
College costs way too much; sometimes I think that it'll be better if I just dropped out, and went to plumbing school, so I wouldn't have to waste time and money.
In a way, you pay for what you get. For example, private colleges have a smaller faculty to student ratio, and better professors. But it's still not right because, like Manjinder said, not everyone is going to be, for example a famous director or a buisness tycoon, so they'll probably be paying off their college debt for years and years.
I also think that you can get a good education without paying $53,000 a year, but it would be difficult if you had "nosebleed seats" in all of your classes. That would suck!:(
There are some schools where tuition is relatively low, or even free like Macaulay, and students are given some sort of individual attention; however, most of the schools where professors are readily available to communicate with students are really expensive.
CB;]
College isn't what school you go to. It's what you make of your education. A college education is worth as much as you make of it.
ReplyDeleteSure, where you graduated from makes a difference to prospective employers, but you can be a Harvard graduate, but at the bottom of your class--they still won't hire you. You need to prove that you're worth something, and push yourself to truly learn and make something worthwhile of your college experience.
And essentially, it's up to the student and where he or she would feel most comfortable. Whether it's at a small, private, liberal arts school, or at a large public school, one of the most important parts of college is the experience--making lifelong friends and connections, learning who we are, and learning how to independently function in society. This is what's truly important, and is oftentimes invaluable. The value of the experience can significantly exceed the cost of college, and you can get that at a school that's $53k/year, or even a school that's completely free--it's all up to what you truly want.
I, for one, plan on going to a small- to mid-sized private university with a strong engineering program, because I'd be with more like-minded people. Nerds, to be concise. The people who like to take apart random electronics to see how they work--not the people who bury their noses in books all day. It's the experience that I'm looking for. A private university, I feel, would give me the most opportunities to advance my prospects as an environmental engineer. A place that's quirky and diverse with one main goal--to make the world a better place. I, for one, would be willing to pay anything for this experience, but others aren't as lucky as I am to say this.
However, when unable to pay for an education, there are many schools out there that can fit one's needs--and many schools, when they really feel that you belong at their school, they would even pay for you to go.
It's sad when my friends don't apply to the schools of their dreams because they don't think they'll be able to afford it, because there's always a way. However, financial aid isn't that great for most schools--a lot of it tends to be loans to be paid back instead of grants that don't need to be paid back. Some feel that it's not worth it to take out loans to pay for college, but it's an experience of a lifetime. Passing up the opportunity would surely be a waste.
the best return on the time and money and i invest into college for me is to be this carefree child for the rest of my life. with a decent job that makes me happy i hope i can do it. to me the outrageously expensive colleges seem over rated because at that point it becomes a contest of prestige for the colleges to a point where they push an overly rigorous ciriculum and try to "manufactor well rounded" students. for example MIT requires all of its students to take a lot more than classes than the average college student, and for the students to know how to swim. also college can only provide us a theoretical knowledge of what we should know and i think our real life experience will be much more value than our book learning.
ReplyDeleteJ'aime cet article parce que c'est tres pertinent dans ma vie. Je ne suis pas choque que la pluptart des candidats d'universite ne veulent pas etudier des etudes comme les etudes classiques. Originairement, universites etaient des etablissements prestigieux ou le riche pouvaient etudier. L'education et la philosophie etaient vraiment importantes parmi les grecs anciens. Maintenant, l'argent est le plus important. J'ai une probleme parce que je sais que je m'interesse vraiment de la chimie, mais, je doute qu'un metier chimique me gagne beaucoup d'argent. Malheuresement, je m'inquiet plus de gagner de l'argent plutot que poursuivre mes reves. Alors, comme l'article dit, j'envisage d'assister a une ecole de commerce.
ReplyDeletechristine period 8.
ReplyDeletei like this topic. lately, everyone has been rushing to finish college applications, but i am sure that the students have gotten used to the avaliable colleges out there and what they have to offer. even i have grown accustomed to most of the college aspects. however, there are many ideas that remain to be ambiguous.
take for example, my college education. what is it worth exactly? well, to me, a college education is the most important thing to being sucessful in life. these days, most jobs need at least a bachelor degree if not an associates. we are getting more and more advanced in technolgy and this development only gives us more reason to get a higher education. for me, a college education will give me more chances to better my future situation and status.
For me, all i expect from my time and money in my college is experience, knowledge, and skills so that i can go into the real world and learn to be a true adult. college is the barrier between high school and the real world. i expect college to help me understant things, teach me new things, and give me inspiration so i can help the world, even if it is small.
dont judge a book by its covers. you never really know the true conditions of a college until you actually attend the college. everyone has different opinions so what my friend thinks coudl be different from my own. so an ivy leagued school to others may sound amazing and up there, but to me, it might be lacking in a suitable learning experience. im sure that there are CUNY schools that can curriculum better than some of the top ivy league schools.
in my opinion, i absolutely belive that one can get a high education without having to pay 57 k per year. inspiration and knowledge comes in many different forms. from ivyleagues to cunys, streets to books, or even people to internet, knowledge is everywhere. all we need is inspiration. once we get that, we will have the passion to pursue our majors, no matter how little it cost or how much. because if we can believe in it, we can do it.
The concept of a college education has definitely changed. Theres a much heavier emphasis on getting a job than getting an education. Perhaps this is because of the increased standards necessary to be employed. In the past a high school education was all you really needed whereas nowadays a bachelor's degree is being devalued because there are so many people getting that degree. College is becoming a place to get a job rather than an institute of "higher education."
ReplyDeleteIt is quite unfortunate that education has taken this path. I don't believe that people should be pushed towards a "marketable education' due to job prospectives rather than an education that can elevate their state of mind and provide a different perspective to life. However, that is not to say that the marketable majors are not so. They could very well be; the problem is with the emphasis taken off of that enlightening experience and being placed on making money.
However, paying around 50,000 every year for an education is ridiculous. There are plenty of other institutions that can provide an education that is just as good. Oftentimes the only justification for paying so much is that "I will get a good job." It's a shame that a liberal arts education does not have that coercive ability.
J.L. - Period 8
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ReplyDeleteCollege education is worth everything to me because it’s my road to success and my dreams. The return on the investment is the completion of my goals. I believe Raab is right because many poorer families might have the advantage of paying the costs of college let alone knowing the results of the investment. Democracy is in risk since the poor will have a great burden by going to college since even if they go, they will suffer from the huge college debt. Only the rich will have a college education without the burden of debts. I believe I can get a valuable education without paying the $53,000 per year by going to a public college that will cost much cheaper such as CUNYs and still get a decent education. There isn’t a sufficient financial aid because many students just take out too much loans and end up in debt. I believe we should produce business majors with marketable skills because they can be able to find a job easier and it’s more useful to society. Philosophy major is outdated and nearly useless as of today in a world of science and machines. The idea of a liberal arts education is outdated because many students tend to look for the easy way out of college risking taking easy courses with no purpose without a job a mind. Students should be able to do a liberal arts education if they can find their future career at the end of it. Without a goal this education will leave the student without a job or future.
ReplyDelete-Kazi pd 8
A college diploma is the new high school diploma of yesteryears. Employers are beginning to create a slandered requirement of some sort of relevant college degree for hopeful job applicants. Unless you are aiming for extremely prestigious jobs, like working at a fortune 500 company, the college you choose for your undergraduate does not really matter. I believe undergraduate college should be a exploration period in a students progression into full-tier adult in the working force. This idea of exploring your interests is slightly acknowledged and accounted for in some high schools to a small degree. For example, in QHSSYC, i have personally taken courses in astronomy, microbiology and environmental science. These classes are not required, i could have easily taken chorus, but the fact is i took them because the subject interested me. In college, you are offered a much more comprehensive list of courses that you can sift through. I personally will take courses in speaking Arabic, though it is not relevant to the biology/medicine discipline i will ultimately pursue. However, this is the romantic vision of college. You can switch your majors in a flash. You are not tied down until you are ready to settle down into a discipline.
ReplyDeleteAs a senior intending on becoming a business major, I was intrigued by what this article said. My whole perspective on what I plan to do in college changed dramatically. What I realized by reading this article is that in choosing my major so early, I am committing myself to something that I might not enjoy doing. Additionally, I’ve come to realize that college may not be the idealized paradise that it appears to be in teen comedies and popular songs.
ReplyDeleteThis article led me to ponder whether or not a college education is really worth the enormous investment that I have to make to attend college. While it is a widely held belief that a college degree equates to financial success, examples of hugely successful individuals without college degrees lead me to think otherwise. The likes of Steve Jobs, Henry Ford, and Bill Gates make me think that one can have a profound impact on the world and not have a college degree. These people have something in common: by pursuing their passions and defying the seemingly inevitable pressure to attend college, they have revolutionized the world and made great contributions that even the most accomplished erudite may never make.
Nonetheless, reasonably priced higher education institutions have something to offer to those intending on graduating with a college degree. I say this because the price is right. People should never have to pay a ridiculous amount of money to be able to have a chance (something not definite) of bettering their lives. President Raab is right in her viewpoints because in a sense, college mitigates our democracy. At this current state, college is not for the people; rather, it is for those who can afford to pay for it.
At the same time, school systems such as CUNY are signs of hope and progress. CUNY, for example, is a relatively inexpensive alternative to expensive private colleges. People don’t have to pay upwards of 50 thousand dollars a year to attend college. I feel that regions all over the country should do the same as New York and establish more fine college systems like CUNY.
One trend in colleges that is alarming is the conformity that seems to be prevalent in major choosing. The fact that interesting and very important fields such as philosophy are dwindling and some fields like business are greatly expanding is very disturbing. While the likes of Warren Buffet have a place in this world, the likes of Plato or Karl Marx need to have a place as well. There must be a better balance. Great philosophers cannot be lost to the wrong expectations that society has on them.
- Rich C Choi
Remember that 80's commercial with all these people dressed in the same drab, colorless garb sitting in front of a screen while some crazy looking bald guy is talking on a giant screen? And this short-haired, blond, athletic woman wearing some short shorts and a hammer comes in the room and throws the hammer at the screen with the crazy, Zordon looking guy? If you don't know what I'm talking about, copy the link.
ReplyDeletehttp://video.aol.com/video-detail/apples-1984-macintosh-ad/1397315829?flv=1
It just feels like everyone is being horded into the same field's, and being handed out these labels. "Doctor", "Lawyer". Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a doctor or a lawyer, but it seems that in this society no one is allowed or given the time to go search themselves out. Some people come in to college and already know what they want to do. But I'm pretty sure the most popular major for freshman in college is undecided.
People end up rushing into a career that they don't so much enjoy, due to coercion from family and friends, or fear that of they don't start doing something, they will have started off their adult lives in the wrong way. Money is too much a focus. I don't want the life where I'm making six digits, or even two commas, and come home feeling unfulfilled because I'm not enjoying what I'm doing. I don't believe anything is silly or unreachable. If you wanted to be something when you were younger, go out and be that. You don't have to change yourself for a job, find a career that fits you, or make something new.
phyll
Although people say college is about "self-discovery," this can be very difficult especially for people who are trying to get a degree to make a living. As mentioned in the article, people are chasing after the "American dream." Nowadays, when people talk about college it's not about exploring new things and discovering new things. It's more about what one wants to major in and his/her plan after that.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ms. Brookes from The University of Texas. The most important thing you leave college with are experiences and a "toolbox of skills" that will prepare you for the real world. It's sad that colleges have to drop certain classes just because the economy is influencing students to take certain classes for certain fields like math and science. By dropping classes like philosophy, how do people expect kids to become great thinkers and learn analytical skills?
Everything today is about money. No money = cuts in education, cuts in funding, higher college tuitions, etc. College tuitions are just becoming unreasonable. For example, the estimated cost for a private institution is about 40-50k/year. This is A LOT of money especially if you're going to go to school for 4-6 years. I mean, compared to public institutions, private institutions are more preferred because of the quality of education. Then again, college will be one of the best investments in your life.
It's depressing to know that the value of education is going down. Today, a bachelor's degree is equivalent to a high shcool diploma years ago; what's next? A master's degree will be the next bachlelor's degree?
In my family, going to college defines how successful you are. Unfortunately, in my culture, the elders believe that only the kids who attend college are intelligent, which at times may not be the case. For me, since all of my brothers have attended and graduated from college, it’s important that I follow in their footsteps. My parents have always been very strict about education and schooling. College will finally be my chance to study something that I love—something that I’m passionate about, not just a boring curriculum filled with every subject known to man.
ReplyDeleteSince I want to attend medical school, it is important for me to manage my money and really think about the costs of colleges. Sometimes, a CUNY can be seen equivalent to a private school, even though the tuition is significantly lower. Most private schools give students good grades just to keep them in the school so that they can continue paying money to the school. In CUNY, the teachers are much more critical when it comes to grading. Also, I know many friends who have attended a CUNY/SUNY and they are very successful. In fact, a few teachers in our school have attended these lower tuition colleges such as SUNY Buffalo and even Queens College.
There is a sufficient amount of financial aid. Many people complain that they aren’t getting enough scholarships but money is all around us, we just have to look for it. Even if a scholarship only gives $500, it’s worth something if you apply for many scholarships.
Essentially, all of our hard work in elementary, middle, and high school pays off when we go to college. These instiutions help us to become well-rounded students and eventually find our passion and our talents. When we go to college, we are able to actually concentrate on what we love.
I think 53,000 dollars/year is too expensive.Not everybody can pay that price even if students can take a loan.Next year if I go to la fac it will cost me much less than 53,000 dollars.But there are advantages of paying more.For instance,going to an école de commerce costs very expensive, it's about 8000 euros per year.But at the end you can be sure of getting a well-paid job without having to wait too long. This a great opportunity :you can have enough money to live as you wish to.But, as it is said in the article students are motivated in their studies by financial reasons.But I think they should rather take time to think of what they'd really like to do.
ReplyDeleteBut on the other hand,it's also true that you can go to la fac for many years,have the diploma without being able to get a correct job. Sometimes you have to wait a long time before that happens.But this does not that you don't get the Education that you deserve at la fac.
I'd like to study a year in American University because I like English and I'm very fond of the American society but if it's too expensive I don't think I'll ever be able to.In cours de presse every week I learn something new about the US(it's Health System, the fourth amendement,the way America is connected to the whole world)and I'm more and more impressed.
I've always wondered why college studies were so expensive in the USA. Well I do think it's way too expensive, few are those who can actually afford such studies, unless you are wealthy or you have a scholarship, it seems that higher education is a restricted area. In France, there are tuitions for la fac but nothing like the American amounts! But as Mrs Owens said about the proverb, we may wonder is the total of fees guarantee optimal studies a diploma and of course, a well-paid job. I'm planning to go to a private school and I think in France, more and more students like me choose the same path to private studies. Of course, it's expensive even if it depends on the school the studies, for instance, the business schools demand expensive tuitions but nothing like the 53,000$ a year like in your country.
ReplyDeleteIt's a choice because these studies are the one that guarantee a job at the end of the 5 years but I do not think that because you pay, you receive a good formation or that money necessarily provides you what you demand. People that go to la fac can realize brilliant studies and have great jobs, and that with no need to pay thousands of euros ! I think it's more a matter of the quality of the teaching and the environment. No need money to pursue the studies you want.
Private schools only prepare students to the same job, the same strategies as in business schools, whereas la fac offers to broaden your mind and the way you think. We have the opportunity to do interesting and rewarding studies without having to be from a wealthy family. Such a system enables the students who have less to pursue their studies after they pass their bac and they can henceforth pretend to a good job, as anyone else. It makes people a little more equal regarding studies. Financial reasons should not motivate our studies, it may and will sound naive, but we should be able to study what we want without having to pay so much. Because, we have to face it, studies have become a market just as trade. And it shouldn't be about money.
Studies in the USA are famous for being expensive. To me, it's not right that students have to pay so much just to be able to pursue their studies.
ReplyDeleteIn France, there are private schools but nothing that reach the 53,000 $ a year ! Business schools may be expensive, depending on the one you choose. These schools are famous and enjoy their reputation as more and more students choose to integrate them : indeed, they guarantee a job at the end of the 5 years of studies and a professionalized formation.
But in France, happily, the major part of the students still choose to go to la fac to pursue their higher education. La fac is not free unless you have a scholarship, but the fees are not that expensive and it exists many helps that contribute to pay them. Money must not guarantee a good teaching and the best conditions to learn and to be able to have a job. It deepens the gap between the students because obviously, we don't come from the same backgrounds.
La fac is still a way to keep some equality in chances to do higher studies : many do rewarding studies and travel to better their language their approach of multiculturalism and so on... Money should not prevent people to broaden their perspectives and prevent them from achieving optimal studies.
Not just in France, all over Europe education is a lot more affordable than in the United States, if not free. For example, in London, I could get a free education but I'd have to stay there and become a citizen. Also, if you speak German you can go to college for free there as well. Why does the US make it so expensive? I don't know, but whatever college you go to, prestigious or not, you just have to work hard to make the best of it, and achieve.
ReplyDeleteCurrently my only connection to the Internet is through mynipod, so I apologize beforehand for any typos and the like. So people want to go to college. I feel like this whole college thing is overblown. I'm not saying that's it's a waste of time, because it definately is not. But one should not be thethered down by acedemia. Some young adults want more than anything else to join the navy, so they do. Some want to get a head start on their future lives, so they go to a "quick" vocational college and hop right into the industry of their choice. These options are as diverse as the people that consider them. Some people just don't go right away, preferring to take a gap year and ready hemselves.
ReplyDeleteNow in terms of paying for collge, the answer again is dependant on whos asking. We cNnot simply generalize thousands of dollars in such a way. Each person in unique in his choices and opportunities. Personally, I would prefer grants and things that would not require payments. Once I graduate j have to face the world, and it is a lot harder to face by Ny account if you start off with a debt growing...
The wY our society is growing has an increased demand for jobs that people genrally do no want to do. Most people I believe do not have childhood dreams of being an accountNt. But we as citizens are becoming LAZY. If we want to make our generation matter we need to be active in our choices...
Forrest pd two
Je ne peux même pas concevoir que dans une pays qui prône soit disant l'égalité des chances, la possibilité pour tout un chacun de réussir et de fructifier que ce soit possible de demander autant d'argent pour pouvoir simplement étudier. Evidemment, payer 53 000$ par an est exagérément trop cher et bien entendu hors de portée de bonne partie de la population. En clair, c'est véritablement une politique élitiste et séparatiste qui est alors établi :les hautes études semblent être seulement profitables et accessibles qu'à une certaine couche de la population, à savoir celle qui a les moyens de débourser de telles fortunes.
ReplyDeleteLe pire, c'est que l'on retrouve de tels prix aussi exorbitants également en France, notamment avec les écoles de Commerce, plus elles sont prestigieuses, plus elles sont chères. Résultat, beaucoup de candidats potentiellement intéressés se désistent par un coût trop élevé par rapport à leur revenu. Ce qui est vraiment dommage, car on devrait tous avoir la possibilité de faire ce que l'on a envie de faire, ce pour quoi on est doué sans souci d'argent. Ceci dit, il y a quand même des dispositions qui ont été. Je prends par exemple prises afin d'arranger plus ou moins le problème avec la création et l'attribution de bourses mais il faut être tout de même réaliste, il y a encore beaucoup trop d'étudiants qui sont lésés mo cas, il y a certaines études, parce qu'elles sont payantes et trop chères que je n'envisage même parce que la fiche de paye de mes parents ne correspond pas aux critères d'attribution de bourse. Mais ce n'est pas parce qu'ils gagnent leur vie décemment que payer des études aussi chères sont à portée de main. En clair, c'est véritablement un cercle vicieux...
Je n'aime pas du tout cette phrase à savoir "you get what you pay for", c'est absurde!!!Justement, on ne devrait avoir à payer pour recevoir des connaissances, et surtout aussi cher! Chantelle a dit que d'une certaine façon, c'est vrai car le plus souvent ce sont dans les universités payantes que l'on retrouve les meilleurs professeurs. Je suis absolument certaine que c'est faux, même dans les universités où l'on a pas à payer de telles sommes, on peut retrouver un corps professoral aussi compétent. La preuve, je suis en classe prépa au Lycée de Bellevue, où je n'ai pas à débourser un sou pour suivre ses études ô combien poussées et élitistes, tout cela avec des enseignants qualifiés et compétents. Alors je dis que c'est au niveau du système éducatif qu'il y aurait des choses à changer et à reconsidérer...
Elaine a mis le doigt sur un point intéressant en disant que l'on peut très bien débourser une somme astronomique dans une université très côtée et être un des pires éléments et ainsi ne pas être retenu par les différents corps de profession. Elle a parfaitement raison, on nous juge plus tard, lorsque l'on entre dans le monde du travail par nos compétences. Bien sûr, sortir d'une école ou université réputée est vraiment un bonus, mais il faut rester réaliste, il faut quand avoir et le diplôme et les résultats qui vont avec...
Passer une année aux USA pour étudier serait vraiment une chance incroyable et vraiment enrichissante, mais je suppose que le coût peut freiner bon nombre d'entre nous... Ainsi, les paroles de Daniel reflètent réellement ce à quoi la plupart des étudiants sont confrontés: abandonner ses rêves en revenant à des projets réalisables pour tout de même gagner de l'argent. Du coup, non seulement à cause de la situation économique de notre beau monde, on doit oublier le métier qui nous faisait rêver étant jeune pour chercher plutôt un qui nous rapporte plus d'argent pour vivre décemment, mais en plus on doit jongler entre les écoles et universités qui nous permettent de ne pas débourser beaucoup!
Alors je finirai en disant: qu’elle est dure et compliquée la vie de l’étudiant!
Period 1 R.D.
ReplyDeleteI’m planning on majoring in Accounting or Secondary Education. A lot of times, people say “What! You want to be a teacher?” or “Accounting’s boring~.”
Though I understand that spending the next four years studying calculus or working with numbers all the time, will be tedious, I’m pretty sure it’ll pay off. College is an investment, and it’s not worth $50,000. Some schools, like Harvard, cost so much, only the rich can afford it, while only the best and brightest among the middle/lower classes can attend. On the other hand, CUNY costs less than $10,000 a year, which is a reasonable price that many of us can afford to pay. For my majors, I’m sure my time and money spent on College will pay off when I start working.
And regarding the idea of a liberal arts education being outdated, isn’t true, since it helps us develop our strength of mind, intellect, and knowledge which enhances creativity.
I wowuld say that 53,OOO$ is very expensive to study.
ReplyDeleteI find that in general the fact that we have to pay to study is hard.
I thnik that it should be the goverment which should pay for our studies.
In France whe have to paid thousands of euros for private universities or schools not for public.
Health care, school, retires I think it should be the goverment who should pay for all that.
I think that money has nothing to do with the fact that we'll get a good or bad education,with the bare necessities you can do a lot of things.
For example Aimé Cesaire was born in a poor family and it didn't prevent him from becoming the famous poet an novelist that we know.
Of course we need some money but i don't think its the most important to do studies
The first thing is to have abilities, to be hard workin and determied.
I always dreamed of going to England or the United States but when I see all the bare necessities we have to pay for .
I think that for some of the students in our class , we live our last year in Martinique. After the 2 years of Prepa, except those who want to do one more year ( crazy people lol) , most of us had to go to France to continue ( in la fac, or Sciences PO or others ) but we had to go and I think that it is a real problem for the Martinican students.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, it is hard to leave our family, our island, the sun and the atmosphere of conviviality ( in France it is more cold – because of the weather and also because of French people - ). I lived in Paris some years and the fact that people didn’t pay attention to each other was, at the time, surprising for me. So , we had to adapt ourselves to another way of life. For us and for our parents it is not really reassuring. And add to these things, our parents have to think to the financial aspects : rent a flat, money to do the shopping, money to take the transport … and above all money to pay our higher education. So if we have to pay $ 53 000 / year , I think that 75 % of the people who have the chance to do higher education would not because their parents would not have the money to pay .
$ 53,000, in my opinion is not just expensive but TOTALLY INCREDIBLE ! ! ! !
I see that it is hard for some friends to ask for 5 000 euros/year to their parents to enter in a business school, because they know that it is really expensive and that their parents have not the means… Personnaly, I expect to enter in a school of translation or to go to England to study business law …but , even if I succed in my candidacy , I think that the fact that I have to pay 6 000 euros or to follow the expensive way of life of London may be a problem. I know that my parents do a lot of sacrifices for their children and pay 5000 euros/year during 4 or 5 years , only for me it is too expensive. We have the chance to have associations for helping students and othersin France , I am ok, but we have to find the rest of the money .
Perhaps we have to pay more if we want the best and the highest education – because some fac for example are not really expensive but not really interesting for students – but I think that money also creates inequalities of opportunity. People who have the money are in the top, they are the leaders of our society and the others even more clever and ambitious, because of a problem of money, can’t afford it.
I don’t know why these schools are so expensive, so I will not say nonsense, but I think that sometimes they abuse of their power knowing that students need their schools to study… have a diploma and then work.
And yes, it’s a dream for me to study in an American university – because of the culture, the language, the fascination for this country- but only because of the price I think that it will stay a dream….
Joanna xxx
I agree whith Mr Owens , I find this subject very interesting because it is a current subject which concerns us and I think, all the students whathever their country .
ReplyDeleteFirstly , I understand that many students who can afford private schools want to pursue their studies in these schools because according to them, this kind of school is a way to enter in the active world more quickly . Furthemore ,they think there are better formations and classes in these schools than the one of university .
But In my opinion ,it is not always true for all the private schools . In fact as Sophie said , I think there are not always the best teachers in the private schools, and many very qualified teachers give classes at the university or free schools . Moreover it's not because you pursue your study in private schools that you will succeed in finding a job well paid when you finish your schooling . I think money is not a guarantee of success .
I also understand that the cost of school fees may motivate some students, but in my opinion it doesn't have to be the first motivation . To me, the first motivation has to be what we really want to be of our life ; that's why I think students but above all the politicians don't have to let schools fees be an obstacle to studies . IT IS TOO MUCH IMPORTANT .
As far as is concerned the cost of schooling, I think school fees are a true source of inequalities because there are in the one hand students who can afford these schools and one the other hand students who can't afford it . Consequently, it's creates many disparities .
I think all the students , whathever their background should have the same chances to succeed . And often, grants can't make up for this kind of problems because they are not sufficient , furthemore to get some help of banks, in many cases you have to prove yourself .
In my opinion we can also realize very good studies at university if it corresponds to our projects . I think the system of fac enables to fight against inequalities and give the same chances to all the students .
Janine
ReplyDeleteYour time in college is what you make of it. If you take advantage of the opportunities then it should be worthwhile. It depends on which opportunities you take.
Why should I worry so much about "investment of my time and money"? Why should I worry about the end-product? Are people created to be mass-produced for this-and-that? No. I'm just going to go to college or defer for a year and enjoy the moment. Life is already stressful so why make it worse by worrying about the future? Yes, there's the price-tag and the different majors, but it's better if we're able to see the connections between all the classes. I remember when I went to an Open House at Brown University the students were discussing the many classes that are offered. With the examples they gave, such as computer programming and mythology, they were able to show the connections. For me, I'll learn to connect my lessons to different ideas. It shouldn't just be a straight-forward method to "something." Instead, it should be an adventure where we take different paths to find our passions.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.
The main problem is money. It's the barrier which keeps us from taking the path we want to walk on. Because of money, kids have to opt for their back-up schools or not attend at all. I feel that it is restricting us. Maybe if there was more financial aid the problems could lessen because Mr. Flaherty has said that there isn't a "middle class." I feel the same way. The gap between rich and poor keeps on growing. There are scholarships and grants but those are limited. I think it would be nice to give graduating seniors who will be attending colleges or other forms of higher education some type of relief on their wallets even if small.
AJ Pd 2
ReplyDeleteSo everyone wants to go to all the big name colleges because they think that they are guaranteed a great job if they attend those schools. Well today there are Harvard Graduates struggling to find jobs in a weak economy. In my opinion, the college you go to does not matter. It matters how much you try and how hard you work toward your goals. Going to a CUNY or SUNY school can get you just as good a job compared to if you went to a private college. Today, many employers look for experience and ability; something that isn't completely shown from the school you attend. That's why I believe that it doesn't matter what school you go to.
I think that the cost of colleges these days are pretty outrageous. There are some colleges that cost more than what the average family's income in a year. It would be very hard for students to pay for tuition, not to mention that they would also have other expenses. Even though I'm not sure what college/university I'll attend in September, i do know that I wouldn't want to pay a lot for it. I mean for my college education, the only person pay for it would be myself, I don't have rich parents. I wouldn't want to fell as if I was indebt before I even get a decent job. Good thing, there are schools out there, such as CUNYs, where getting an education is actually affordable. I mean a few thousand a year sound manageable.
ReplyDeleteAlina Z. Period 1
As Melanee, I've always wondered, why studies were so expensive in USA, 53,000/a year it's really, really too much!! Fortunately , we, in Bellevue don't have to pay such an important amout for our second year in college.
ReplyDeleteI find that the article raises a really important point : connection between the degree that you get and a future career , nowadays, it's a pretty important question for French University ,because very often people who are graduated in fields as litterature , foreign languages or philosophy have difficulties to involve in the labor market and because of that students have a tendency to study things they don't like at all just to be sure to have a well -paid job . Thus, i'm totally agree when it is said that University must help young people who study humanities to insert in the economical world but it must also value they skills and their vision of the world. Some people spoke about" les écoles de commerces" saying that this kind of school ask for an important amount but at the end you have a job guaranteed, i disagree with this idea because i know many people who studied in this kind of private and expensive schools and who didn't get anything at the end and who had to find a job in a totally different field than the one they study. Young people should pay attention to these business school which are not always reliable. Finally, about study in a American college, if i could do it, it would be a really, really great opportunity in terms of cultural exchanges but also the chance to have an experience in such an important English -speaking country.I know someone who wanted to spend a year in a Trinidian university but like in USA ( it's nearly the same system), one year is pretty expensive (about 6000 dollars) she had to save money to experiment that but she didn't regret her plunge in the English -speaking world.
I think as Melanee said that it's amazing to see that someone has to pay 53000$ to study because living in France we don't really have the same mentality. However I do think that there is this kind of research for the best by paying the more. Indeed in Classes Prépa, a recent statistics demonstrated that there was no poor students in those class. And even if I totally agree that it makes a kind of segregation, and narrow area into studies in America. I think we should also wonder if there is not the same problem in France. Because, the idea that you pay for what you will receive in my opinion finds some echo in Classes Prépa. Maybe we are not as concerned in Martinique, but recently there was a law which planned to force schools were there are Prépa to have at least 30% of students coming from the middle class and the "milieux défavorisés". And what was the result? Most of the high schools refused this idea. Because I think it's a way to make last the idea of "une élite". And we can disagree but we can't deny that you must be able to afford a Class prépa in order for you not to always be looking for a book at the CDI which is the more often so BAD. Therefore to conclude I think that of course it's incredible that you have to be wealthy to study while America claim to be the country where you can fulfil all you dreams. But I would also argue that this same phenomenon is developing in France, but underneath...
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, for next year I plan to go to France and make a third year of English "licence" in order to then make a "master" and pass my exams to become an english teacher(maybe as Great as you are!!). And I think it won't make a big difference whith those who will go and pay a very expensive private school. Because I think the argument of the school and so on actually has nothing to do. What is really important is how far you're going to sacrify yourself maybe and work hard in order to succeed because you can be in the BEST and more EXPENSIVE school ever seen,if you just don't work you won't pass you exam , and the same is true for la fac.
"Work frees man" I'm not nazi do NOT worry...Only kidding!
Cindy:
ReplyDeleteI don't think that in our society , we really need to study in higher schools which are very expensive;
In fact , studying in these schools isn't a guarantee to have a good job , and lead a decent life .
In my opinion, people are more and more confronted with the unemployement, so, that is why , I don't believe that going to these schools could be always an advantage .
Also, with the staying on at school, we should have a better wage; but it isn't what happens .
Furthemore , there are a lot of schools which offer a good education without necessarily requiring a lot of money .
Indeed, in nowadays, everybody can have a good scholling without becoming poor paying for these schools ;
on the contrary , the smart teachers and students aren't necessarly in the higher schools , so even the more impoverished can benefit from this education .
Moreover, I would like to underline the fact that , paying so much money for scholling , only can provoke inequalities ;
In fact , this system contributes to escalate the number of disparities between the students who share the same goal , namely succeeding in life , having a good job .
So , I think that the government has to make decisions either in order to reduce the price that students pay to go to these expensive schools or in order to help people more to pay these schools .
Obviously i agree with Odile, Elodie, Melanee, etc about the fact that paying so much is a shame. Being eager to have a decent scholarship should not look like an utopia. Let's however remember that this matter is an old matter. The thing is that there were social chances. And it is a current matter too because people became more aware of the price of life and the middle classe and poor people's difficulties are put forward because the society is less and less ready to tolerate that every one should not deserve a decent scholarship. In fact the economical dimension that it also controls the education. And it's a pity for people's financial situations have nothing to do with their capacity to study and have excellent results. More than a perfect way to learn and learn, colleges have become economical tools for they mostly allow to have a decent job. And for sure, the goal aimed is often to have a wealthy life of at least a decent life. I think that learning for the very sake of learning is indeed now seen as a luxury. Now you learn to be able to have a decent life. If so, every one should be able to have a decent life.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, I believe that the fact that colleges have to think again about their majors is a clue of the importance of the compromises necessary to make now-a-days. How come that a subject can be seen as a supply no longer appreciated on the market? I agree, some majors like philosophy don't easily allow to have a job now, especially in France where the matter becomes very serious. Nonetheless i must say that i cannot help to feel strange when i think of deleting these majors for it belongs to a cultural heritage...
However, let's add that those who manage to find money to enter a great and expensive college are really aware of what is at stake. Subsequently they are even more motivated and see failure as an unthinkable ending.
DEREK YAM
ReplyDeleteCollege is the big leagues’ of education. Unlike high school (if you attend public school), you are actually paying to attend. This means that you have to make the most of your money. You will also get as much as you put into it. However; some of these costs are ridiculously expensive. It takes many Americans over a decade to pay off their loans because of the inflated cost of college. In this country, College is run like a business.
Is this money really worth it? Well, that is a no-brainer to me. Of course it is. In this day and age, it is almost impossible to get a stable and successful career without a college education. Sure, you may spend a large amount of money for several years, but in the end, your pay off will be much more.
Also, an education provides job security. I once knew a man who had no college education, was getting old, and never went to college. He had a job as a security guard. However, with the drop in our economy, he was the most obvious choice to be laid off. Without an education, he was not able to find any skilled-jobs. With the financial crisis going on, business’ could not afford to hire a skill-less worker. I am not sure how he lives now, but when I had known him, he had slept in a homeless shelter, and struggled day to day. That can possibly be a future for someone without an education. No, it is not common, but an education is something no one can ever take away from you. It opens countless opportunities.
Sam S. Pd.8
ReplyDeleteA college education is more important than ever because of the competition that's in the job market. The competition isn't confined to one profession or field; it's everywhere! The education that one receives in college pays for itself because of the superior quality of jobs they can find. However, as the article states, fewer people are going to college to learn more about something they love. They are going to college to get a "practical" education. A "practical" education means one that would result directly in a high-paying job.
Getting a good college education doesn't have to be expensive. Colleges like The Cooper Union and CUNY Honors ask for no tuition. However, financial aid in most colleges is not as accommodating as it should be. While colleges claim to give out an ample amount of financial aid, it's not even close to sufficient. International students don't get the kind of financial aid that they should. In fact, a college education for international students costs about twice as much as it does for students who are citizens. That seems unnecessary and unfair. Also international students can't receive financial aid because they don't have social security numbers. So financial aid isn't given to everybody who needs it.
In today's world, students do not have a choice after they graduate from high school. In order to make it in life nowadays, you have to a college degree backing you up. With that being said, the cost of college has been going up over the years and many students are struggling to make their degrees relevant. A Phd means nothing nowadays because there are no jobs in the world to put the degree to use.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in my opinion college is supposed to be more than getting a degree so that you can get a high paying job in the future. A true college experience is one where you not only take classes that pertain to your major but you take classes that further your education and understanding of the world and just make you a more well-rounded person in general.
Tuition for college nowadays are really extreme. The cost of a private university is above 50grand a year, and rising. In looking into this, it mostly seems to me that your not actually paying for a different college education then you would get at any other public university but your paying for the name and backing of the college. WHen you have the backing of a Degree from Harvard or Yale, you are more likely to have a job in your field of choice when you leave the college. Its not necessary that you studied different material or had a different experience in the classroom but you just have the support and backing of a internationally known prestigious university.
With the recession nowadays, families cannot afford to spend nonexistent money on a much needed college education for their children. Yes, it is true if you go to a private university and your family makes less than 60grand a year, your EFC is zero, but that only means that your family does not have to contribute any money toward your college education. They do not say that your college eduction is free, you still have to find a way to get the college their money, whether it be from financial aid or grants, the college always wants to be paid. So, no I do not think that spending 50grand on an education just because its a well known college is a smart idea, when you can get the same degree at a public university just as good. ALso, the whole thing about your expensive education paying for itselg, in my book, does not hold up, because if your paying back loans for the next 20 years of your life then your not actually benefitting the great rewards of your college education to me.
Society today has become so fast paced and competitive. Now a days, students go into college knowing what they’re going to major in, because they feel the pressure to succeed. We’ve all got this mentality that we went to high school to prepare us to get into a good college, that being defined as a college that will prepare us for a good job. Despite the numerous people who constantly remind us that it’s never too late to change your major, or you can always go back to school and change your career, the competitive market continues to tells us that there isn’t enough time to do all that. If you want to make your dreams come true, then you have to know what you want, and go for it, there’s no time to play around. I think that parents’ and students’ concerns about if a college will get you ready for the work environment is valid. It’s true that when you pay for college you’re making an investment, hoping that with your career, you’ll make that money back. It is completely possible to get a good education at a cheaper school, but if you do make the choice to go to the $53,000 school, then something significant better be guaranteed.
ReplyDeleteA.S. Pd. 2
There’s no doubt that a college degree is worth it. It’s all interconnected; you need to go to college to get a degree so you can get a job and make money….which we all need to SURVIVE in the real world. Let’s face it, college is the first step before making that MULA…and in a world where everyone sees green, it’s too big of a necessity to ignore.
ReplyDeleteThere’s also no doubt that one goes to college to get an education, but the uncertainty lies in what they make of that education.
There’s the notion that if you go to a liberal arts school (Ivies and stuff) you’ll get a well rounded education, so you are better prepared to find a job and be a productive member of society. Liberal arts majors give you the opportunity to explore different fields to acquire a universal knowledge that can be applied in anything you do, so if you’re undecided …it’s a great route to take. But for people who have a career in mind, why waste 4 years in a liberal arts college, having to pay back tremendous loans, when you could be studying your field of interest from day one?
For instance, I want to become a pharmacist. I know it sounds lame; stand around all day counting pills (though they do much more than that!:-)) But it’s a stable career with good (really good, esp for starters) pay. And even though people may say rushing into a specialized school or program will only make me a square (meaning I’ll only know one thing-pharmacy) or won’t allow me the chance to “discover myself,” I find solace in the security that I can easily find a job with the kind of degree a specialized major would offer. Besides, I’d rather be unhappy dispensing pills than to be a bum on the street, weighed down by the debt college loans have created as a result of graduating and not finding a job. In fact it’s much harder for people with liberal arts degrees to find jobs because markets are opening up with positions requiring specific skills like those of an engineer or manager. While so few jobs that require writing majors, history majors and philosophy majors are available. It’s this tight competition that makes finding a job so difficult for Liberal Arts majors.
But I don’t mean to belittle a liberal arts degree. Whatever works for you is best. As far as money goes….It is ridiculous to have to pay $38,000 a semester….for like 8 semesters. I think this whole college process is taking advantage of us. We pay for so much; taking SATS/ACTS, sending test scores, sending applications, etc. There are plenty of great schools that are a heck of a lot cheaper and may offer what you want. The truth is…No one wants to be stuck paying back $150,000 and in today’s economy it seems befitting that more and more kids are choosing inexpensive in-state or city colleges. There is nothing wrong with affordable schools, in the end you walk away with the same degree you would’ve gotten from a more expensive and “brand name” school. So what’s the big deal?
First of all, I totally agree with Manjinder. As seniors we are all feeling the pressure of the college application process and after all these years of hard work and sleepless nights trying to maintain high grades, we would feel like failures if we didn’t get accepted into good schools – or at least society would make us feel that way. We are made to believe that high-cost colleges provide the best education and if we graduate from one of them, then we will be set for life. As many others said, college is what you make of it and because of the economic situation and the extremely high price of college these days, maybe for some people, it’s not worth it to waste so much money going to an Ivy League or prestigious university, just to be eternally in debt when you finish school. Especially since for many people like myself who are not interested in the growing, business-bio-eco trend. A humanities degree would not get us very far anymore. Why waste money or time? It’s discouraging to major in something that people do not see as useful. And as Manjinder said, it’s unfortunate that as a society, by presenting such an image, we are restricting creative minds, not even giving them a chance to succeed.
ReplyDeleteAlso, like Jonathan, I too believe that the concept of college has changed. For better or worse, who knows? Because a college education is so essential in order to get a decent job, more people will be motivated to attend college. But that should not be the reason you go. Yes, we all choose colleges and majors with the intent of finding a career in a field that we appreciate, but these days, people don’t even bother studying what they are really interested in. Most just go into a field that they know will provide them with a stable job and a lot of money. And because everyone is using this same go-to-college-get-rich method, people that go to college to really study and make advancements and significant achievements for society, are being diminished and underrated in the midst of all these extra people. People want an easy way to get a job, and not an education and unfortunately, many students are suffering because of that.
Oh. But I do think that a college degree is something worthwhile. It just feels like if you don't get the right type of degree, then you basically wasted your time and money -- even if you did go to a school that was cheaper. Common sense would say, "then get a business degree if all there is to do is business." That might be so..but I just feel like it shouldn't have to be that way.
ReplyDeleteAnellia Pd 1
A college education, eh? To be quite honest, at a time like this, I don't think it could get you very far. First off, unless you managed to get a scholarship by being either smart or poorer than dirt, chances are you're going to wind up taking out money that you're going to have a hard time paying. Even if you do wind up excelling in whatever college you go to, there aren't that many jobs available due to the state of our economy. So let's say you DO get a job. You're going to wind up using much of the money you make paying off the money you borrowed for college. It's almost like it's not worth the effort you'll put into it. ALMOST.
ReplyDeleteEven though there is more of a likelihood that you'll not get the job that you want than you think, it's an even worse idea to skip college, because then you're almost GUARANTEED to get a lousy job. So even if the time and money doesn't seem like it's going to pay off, you STILL don't really have any other choice.
Next year, hopefully i am in college. I believe a college education is worth it, i mean some people gt lucky and can do well in life without a college education, but for most people, they need it just to have the basic needs in life, such as house, food, water and such. the return investment is more money and less time overworking for a mini wage job. i agree with Raab, because base on the report taxes during 2008, 50% of American makes less than 30,000 yearly, so how do those people pay colleges. i believe i can get a very good education without the 53,000$ a year, i remember one guy said you pay that much money not for the education but for the brand and the campus. i don't think there is enough aids to help students. i mean being a thinker is important, but in today's world, nobody sits around to listen to your opinion, people are always busy and rushing around. I believe a business degree is better than thinking degree. i think in today;s world, a lo9t of the field that is popular and pays well ask for a type of major or degree, so liberal degree is a bit outdated today
ReplyDeleteI think college is way more expensive than it should be. You dont really get what you pay for. You would think that if we paid so much, we all would have a great education. Then why are Americans having so much trouble getting and keeping jobs?
ReplyDeleteA teacher once told me they lost a job because an Indian Engineer got his job because he worked for less but had the same education, maybe even better. Jobs are up for competition, and perhaps this problem is more complex then we think. I mean there are a lot of factors involved - first of all theres our economy at one of it's lowest points in a while. There are also immigrants with great education willing to take our jobs for less (mind you their college tuitions are less- they get the same knowledge and job and benefit more from it than we probably do and make more net profit).
The fact that prices are so high to get an education kind of backfires- it discourages a lot of American people from trying to get an education, thus leaving many people uneducated, without ability to contribute to the economy and job market. When those jobs arent filled by us- others fill them, and then we simply complain. Perhaps our education system is flawed. But there is no solid reason why it is or why it should't be expensive. The situation of education is very complex, and can't be solved with on side of an argument...
The problem today in the United States is that if you don't have a college degree, it is hard to get a decent job. Without a college degree, many people are limited to menial labor. However, with a good resume and a degree, a person is able to obtain and hold a job that can not only support them but also a family. Although colleges are expensive, there are alternatives to these schools. City and state universities as well as many other schools offer a great deal of scholarships and they practically pay you to go to school. Copper Union, a school in New York City, gives all students full scholarships and is considered a very good engineering school and one of the best for arts and architecture. As for marketable skills, when chosing what to study, students also have to worry about whether or not they can sustain themselves with their skills.
ReplyDeleteHi everybody,
ReplyDeleteLast week class was verry interesting, because we oppened the debate " How do you have to chose your major ?".
Personally, I want to go in Master de Médiation Culturelle, that is to say, devise and direct cultural projects. But if you take a look a it, only ONE faculté teach this major in all French territory ! I think that is a problem, because according to me, culture make what they are, in what we trust, what we like, what does open our minds and allows us to have a critical perception of our society. And the fact that just ONE faculté teaches it shows, at the contrary, that the culture stays a teaching allowed to a minority, maybe because there isn't many job, or because of a lack of interest, I don't really know.
Cela soulève néanmoins un autre problème. L'école se situant à Paris, les gens qui ne sont pas sur place doivent se déplacer. C'est à dire PAYER un loyer (très cher à Paris soit dit en passant), PAYER la nourriture, PAYER les abonnements internet, PAYER l'abonnement aux transports en commun, PAYER les billets de train pour aller voir la famille pendant les vacances, bref TOUJOURS PAYER.
En Classe Prépa aussi, même si l'enseignement est public, nous payons des sommes considérables pour nos livres, qui ne sont autre que nos outils de travail. Et le "peu" que nous payons, comparé au système américain, nous semble être une montagne. Même si il existe des aides (comme la BOURSE ou encore des prêts), elles ne prennent pas en charge L'INTEGRALITE de nos frais.
In France, with the Declaration of Human Rights, school has to be free. But more you study, more you grown, more you have to pay. Of course school system makes a selection.
First if you can’t pay a wage in Paris - for example - and if your major only exists in Paris, you can't do it and have to change your choice. Moreover, it is a motivation issue : studies are long and exhausting, and no eveybody can bear it.
Quant au fait de payer une école privée ou de choisir une formation élitiste (Les Classes Prépa fonctionnent déja dans un système élitiste puisqu'elles préparent premierement a passer des concours pour des écoles payantes). Je pense que, mine de rien, cela fait une différence, notamment sur le CV. Et que les élèves profitent d'avantages que d'autres non pas, d'un point de vue matériel aussi bien qu'intellectuel (Les Classes Prépa fonctionnent déja dans un système élitiste puisqu'elles préparent premierement a passer des concours pour des écoles payantes) Regardez-nous, notre prof de littérature est un Normalien qui est sorti major de sa promotion, et vous êtes tous - ou presque - impressionés par ses connaissances. Je ne suis pas sûre que les normaliens courent toutes les facultés de France ...
Cependant, je peux ammener une contradiction : je suis allée dans un collège privé (très cher !!) soi disant pour recevoir une éducation et des valeurs ... A part vouloir nous mettre dans un moule Bon Chic Bon Genre, je n'ai pas vu en quoi payer ait améliorer ma manière de travailler ou de refléchir. De plus, les 3/4 de ma classe au collège ont redoublé, ou choisi une orientation professionnelle.
De plus, si on regarde le classement des écoles de commerce, certaines écoles classées 25ème (sur environ 40) coutent plus cher que l'école en tête du classement ... alors que leur résultats lui sont inférieurs! Bizarre non?
En fin de compte, apart pour avoir une IMAGE, une REPUTATION, une simple apparence en fin de compte, je ne suis pas sûre que PAYER pour SAVOIR soit "payant" à tous les coups. Et puis avant, le savoir se transmettait oralement, librement. Avec le système de paiement, c'est la société qui fait son propre tri, tout en restant politiquement correcte puisque à coté, elle propose quand même des écoles gratuites.
Après, tout cela reste une affaire de conviction. Mais je pense qu'il faut quand même savoir où l'on met les pieds avant de payer aveuglement des sommes qui restent, pour nous français, exhorbitantes.
Ma réponse ne sera pas plus originale que ce que vous avez pu lire jusqu’alors quant à ce sujet sur ce sujet… Je ne conçois en effet pas qu’on puisse payer une telle somme pour accéder à des études dites de qualités. D’ailleurs, je ne comprends pas pourquoi cela coûte aussi cher…
ReplyDeleteJe considère en effet que l’accès à l’éducation de façon générale devrait être gratuit. Pourquoi ? Tout simplement parce que nous savons parfaitement que nombreux sont les pays qui font partis du Sud économique et qui par conséquent n’ayant pas de quoi se nourrir chaque jour ne peuvent prétendre pouvoir faire un tel investissement !
De plus demander une telle somme pour intégrer une grande école américaine consiste à « faire la part belle » une fois de plus aux riches qui vivent déjà dans un confort extrême et qui bénéficieraient de surcroît d’une éducation de qualité. N’est-ce pas un moyen de rendre plus important le fossé entre pays riches et pays pauvres ? D’ailleurs dès notre naissance notre avenir est conditionné tant aux Etats-Unis qu’en Angleterre où seuls les enfants de ceux qui ont intégré un grand collège peuvent à leur tour intégrer. Et cela, je ne le trouve pas normal car on ne choisit pas la famille dans laquelle on naît sinon je pense qu’on aurait tous choisit de naître dans une famille riche dans laquelle on ignorerait le sens du mot besoin…
C’est d’ailleurs en pensant en ces termes que l’ancien homme de lettres et maire de la ville de Fort-de-France Aimé Césaire a prévu un système de telle sorte que l’accès à la bibliothèque Schoelcher soit gratuit de même que les activités culturelles sont à moindre coût.
Quant à la réelle qualité des enseignements dispensés dans ces grandes écoles, je n’en disconviens pas. Toutefois, comme a pu le dire Sophie et d’autres avant elle, le prix de la formation ne rend en aucun cas compte de sa qualité. D’où, je ne suis pas d’avis à partager l’idée selon laquelle il faille payer plus pour avoir une formation de qualité : c’est une idée reçue (la qualité coûte cher) dont il faut se débarrasser !
Il est vrai que comme tout système, le système éducatif français a ses failles, ses dysfonctionnements. Toutefois, je crois que du point de vue de l’accès à l’éducation des « nécessiteux » il a vraiment eu le coup d’œil en octroyant des bourses (aides financières) ou encore en prévoyant des conventions avec de grands établissements afin que des élèves motivés puissent intégrer des écoles prestigieuses (on peut par exemple citer Sciences-Po).
ReplyDeleteCertains pourraient me dire que le prestige d’une école se matérialise par son prix. Mais je crois qu’une école doit être prestigieuse en fonction de la qualité de sa formation, des débouchés qu’elle délivre et non pas de son coût. De plus, je crois qu’un élève devrait intégrer une grande école en fonction de son sérieux, sa motivation, ses ambitions et non pas du revenu annuel de ses parents !
C’est là une défaillance majeure du système éducatif américain…
D’ailleurs, il n’est pas dit que tous les élèves qui intègrent ces grandes écoles sont sérieux et motivés, ils sont pour beaucoup (à mon avis) nés au bon moment et SURTOUT dans la bonne famille…C’est la dure loi de la société capitaliste.
On aurait tendance à penser qu’en payant cher il existerait une certaine épée de Damoclès au-dessus de l’éducateur qui se sentirait obligé de nous faire réussir. C’est malheureusement une idée qui se défend. Il n’y a qu’à voir le nombre d’écoles privées qui pullulent…Les parents pensent ainsi faire un investissement fiable dans la mesure où il faut admettre qu’il existe un certain laxisme dans certaines écoles publiques où les professeurs ne sont pas tous désireux de faire progresser leurs élèves, en témoignent certaines réflexions tels que « Que vous travailliez ou non, cela ne change rien à mon salaire ! » qui se font entendre dans le secondaire. En cela, on peut craindre un manque d’investissement de la part du professeur qui n’est pas payé par le parent pour effectuer sa tâche éducative. D’où comme a pu le souligner très justement Mme Owens, il y a des désavantages à payer moins cher…Et je crois d’ailleurs que tant dans le système éducatif américain, que dans le système éducatif français ( les écoles de commerce constituent en effet un exemple probant d’écoles chères), le coût des études constituent un frein à la motivation de beaucoup d’étudiants qui du coup envisagent des études moins chères qui ne faisaient pas jusqu’alors partie de leurs intérêts…